Talk:Ructions - Revision history

Jonathan at 17:52, 24 November 2007

2007-11-24T17:52:38Z

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	==DONE==		==DONE==
	Why thank you :-) I do hope I haven't ruined it, more made it a bit more snappy and slightly less wordy...I think I'm done now. I've tidied it up a little bit, moved some sections around, moved one or two and even deleted one entirely (although I won't go into it as it's tedious the "personal rumour" was just something started by one of my housemates when drunk, and he later apologised, so it is entirely unrelated to this episode). I've also added in an extra paragraph to "leadership style" about the general atmosphere of the place in that period as I felt it was missing from the article otherwise. This does stray a bit from the "facts only" approach of the piece, mainly as it's impossible to point to a specific incident when talking about how a place felt, but I felt it was needed...if anyone disagrees then feel free to take it out. [[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 17:40, 24 November 2007 (UTC)		Why thank you :-) I do hope I haven't ruined it, more made it a bit more snappy and slightly less wordy...I think I'm done now. I've tidied it up a little bit, moved some sections around, moved one or two and even deleted one entirely (although I won't go into it as it's tedious the "personal rumour" was just something started by one of my housemates when drunk, and he later apologised, so it is entirely unrelated to this episode). I've also added in an extra paragraph to "leadership style" about the general atmosphere of the place in that period as I felt it was missing from the article otherwise. This does stray a bit from the "facts only" approach of the piece, mainly as it's impossible to point to a specific incident when talking about how a place felt, but I felt it was needed...if anyone disagrees then feel free to take it out. [[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 17:40, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

			Oh, and I've also tried to remove as many references to his name as possible (or at least keep them a minimum), as part of a general attempt to make it feel less like a character assassination of James and more about the issues that we faced. I'd also suggest that maybe the "link" to this article should not be put on JF's page - when you search on Google for James Flinders you get his own page here but nothing else from this site. It'd probably be fairer given this is all years ago to not have a link to all this stuff from that point in case any friend/employer searches for him, perhaps instead from the SD page? Alternatively we could start writing general long-form articles about academic years at YSTV and link it from that. [[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 17:52, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Jonathan at 17:40, 24 November 2007

2007-11-24T17:40:35Z

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	Just to say I'm loving your work Jon - greatly improving the article bit by bit :) Not always 100% how I would have done it, but that's definately a good thing, and in particular the 'constitution' section is miles better now. Thanks! [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 10:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)		Just to say I'm loving your work Jon - greatly improving the article bit by bit :) Not always 100% how I would have done it, but that's definately a good thing, and in particular the 'constitution' section is miles better now. Thanks! [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 10:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

			==DONE==
			Why thank you :-) I do hope I haven't ruined it, more made it a bit more snappy and slightly less wordy...I think I'm done now. I've tidied it up a little bit, moved some sections around, moved one or two and even deleted one entirely (although I won't go into it as it's tedious the "personal rumour" was just something started by one of my housemates when drunk, and he later apologised, so it is entirely unrelated to this episode). I've also added in an extra paragraph to "leadership style" about the general atmosphere of the place in that period as I felt it was missing from the article otherwise. This does stray a bit from the "facts only" approach of the piece, mainly as it's impossible to point to a specific incident when talking about how a place felt, but I felt it was needed...if anyone disagrees then feel free to take it out. [[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 17:40, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Dummy User at 10:36, 21 November 2007

2007-11-21T10:36:17Z

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	p.s. also feel free to re-organise, add or remove sections as you see fit - in particular I feel 'remove' may happen with a couple. My layout may not necessarily be the best... [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 14:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)		p.s. also feel free to re-organise, add or remove sections as you see fit - in particular I feel 'remove' may happen with a couple. My layout may not necessarily be the best... [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 14:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

			Just to say I'm loving your work Jon - greatly improving the article bit by bit :) Not always 100% how I would have done it, but that's definately a good thing, and in particular the 'constitution' section is miles better now. Thanks! [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 10:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Dummy User at 14:30, 20 November 2007

2007-11-20T14:30:27Z

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	Well, I think we've established that a good group of us do think this is worthy of its own page, and since this Wiki is for the benefit of all members and ex-members, if we want to record our experiences of the time I think it is only reasonable to allow us to do so. To reiterate again, Jonathan will be heavily cutting this article soon, and the extraneous detail will be removed from the page history too. If you wish to add pages for the no confidences which happened during your time in YSTV, you are welcome to, or if you prefer not to (as it sounds) then that's fine. Do as you see fit. We see fit to include this page and record our experiences, so we will. As for it only being of intrerest to those who were directly involved, I don't agree (and the number of subsequent members who have asked the story of these events bears testament to this) however I don't really think it's relevant anyway - much of the detail on this Wiki is not interesting to me, but then much of it is - nothing has to appeal to everyone. If sharing our negative experiences counts as "Dirty Laundry" then I wonder why we share anything at all. A general no-confidences page may be a good idea if someone wishes to write it. [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 12:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)		Well, I think we've established that a good group of us do think this is worthy of its own page, and since this Wiki is for the benefit of all members and ex-members, if we want to record our experiences of the time I think it is only reasonable to allow us to do so. To reiterate again, Jonathan will be heavily cutting this article soon, and the extraneous detail will be removed from the page history too. If you wish to add pages for the no confidences which happened during your time in YSTV, you are welcome to, or if you prefer not to (as it sounds) then that's fine. Do as you see fit. We see fit to include this page and record our experiences, so we will. As for it only being of intrerest to those who were directly involved, I don't agree (and the number of subsequent members who have asked the story of these events bears testament to this) however I don't really think it's relevant anyway - much of the detail on this Wiki is not interesting to me, but then much of it is - nothing has to appeal to everyone. If sharing our negative experiences counts as "Dirty Laundry" then I wonder why we share anything at all. A general no-confidences page may be a good idea if someone wishes to write it. [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 12:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

			==Cutting The Article==

	I'm starting to amend sections of this now as and when I get the time. I hope you don't mind Rowan but I've changed the remaining quoted sections to be highlighted with quotation marks rather than italics - partly because it reads better but it also draws attention to it actually be quotes, rather than just looking like rather unusual formatting! [[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 14:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)		I'm starting to amend sections of this now as and when I get the time. I hope you don't mind Rowan but I've changed the remaining quoted sections to be highlighted with quotation marks rather than italics - partly because it reads better but it also draws attention to it actually be quotes, rather than just looking like rather unusual formatting! [[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 14:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Dummy User at 14:29, 20 November 2007

2007-11-20T14:29:43Z

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	That's fine. And be as harsh as you like with the cutting - I promise I won't be offended :) So far so good with what you've done... [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 14:28, 20 November 2007 (UTC)		That's fine. And be as harsh as you like with the cutting - I promise I won't be offended :) So far so good with what you've done... [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 14:28, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

			p.s. also feel free to re-organise, add or remove sections as you see fit - in particular I feel 'remove' may happen with a couple. My layout may not necessarily be the best... [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 14:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Dummy User at 14:28, 20 November 2007

2007-11-20T14:28:21Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:28, 20 November 2007
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	I'm starting to amend sections of this now as and when I get the time. I hope you don't mind Rowan but I've changed the remaining quoted sections to be highlighted with quotation marks rather than italics - partly because it reads better but it also draws attention to it actually be quotes, rather than just looking like rather unusual formatting! [[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 14:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)		I'm starting to amend sections of this now as and when I get the time. I hope you don't mind Rowan but I've changed the remaining quoted sections to be highlighted with quotation marks rather than italics - partly because it reads better but it also draws attention to it actually be quotes, rather than just looking like rather unusual formatting! [[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 14:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

			That's fine. And be as harsh as you like with the cutting - I promise I won't be offended :) So far so good with what you've done... [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 14:28, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Jonathan: /* Dirty laundry? */

2007-11-20T14:11:59Z

Dirty laundry?

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:11, 20 November 2007
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	Well, I think we've established that a good group of us do think this is worthy of its own page, and since this Wiki is for the benefit of all members and ex-members, if we want to record our experiences of the time I think it is only reasonable to allow us to do so. To reiterate again, Jonathan will be heavily cutting this article soon, and the extraneous detail will be removed from the page history too. If you wish to add pages for the no confidences which happened during your time in YSTV, you are welcome to, or if you prefer not to (as it sounds) then that's fine. Do as you see fit. We see fit to include this page and record our experiences, so we will. As for it only being of intrerest to those who were directly involved, I don't agree (and the number of subsequent members who have asked the story of these events bears testament to this) however I don't really think it's relevant anyway - much of the detail on this Wiki is not interesting to me, but then much of it is - nothing has to appeal to everyone. If sharing our negative experiences counts as "Dirty Laundry" then I wonder why we share anything at all. A general no-confidences page may be a good idea if someone wishes to write it. [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 12:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)		Well, I think we've established that a good group of us do think this is worthy of its own page, and since this Wiki is for the benefit of all members and ex-members, if we want to record our experiences of the time I think it is only reasonable to allow us to do so. To reiterate again, Jonathan will be heavily cutting this article soon, and the extraneous detail will be removed from the page history too. If you wish to add pages for the no confidences which happened during your time in YSTV, you are welcome to, or if you prefer not to (as it sounds) then that's fine. Do as you see fit. We see fit to include this page and record our experiences, so we will. As for it only being of intrerest to those who were directly involved, I don't agree (and the number of subsequent members who have asked the story of these events bears testament to this) however I don't really think it's relevant anyway - much of the detail on this Wiki is not interesting to me, but then much of it is - nothing has to appeal to everyone. If sharing our negative experiences counts as "Dirty Laundry" then I wonder why we share anything at all. A general no-confidences page may be a good idea if someone wishes to write it. [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 12:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

			I'm starting to amend sections of this now as and when I get the time. I hope you don't mind Rowan but I've changed the remaining quoted sections to be highlighted with quotation marks rather than italics - partly because it reads better but it also draws attention to it actually be quotes, rather than just looking like rather unusual formatting! [[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 14:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Dummy User: /* Dirty laundry? */

2007-11-19T12:11:37Z

Dirty laundry?

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	On notability I wasn't trying to suggest it wasn't significant. I've certainly dribbled all manner of technical detail into this Wiki, but have tried to place it in a similar context - that was the basis for my suggestion about having a general page about 'no confidence'. This text, in compact form, would be ideal on such a page and other ex-members could add their no confidence recollections too: hence "I fail to see why this merits a page all of its own". [[User:Sprow\|Sprow]] 10:24, 18 November 2007 (UTC)		On notability I wasn't trying to suggest it wasn't significant. I've certainly dribbled all manner of technical detail into this Wiki, but have tried to place it in a similar context - that was the basis for my suggestion about having a general page about 'no confidence'. This text, in compact form, would be ideal on such a page and other ex-members could add their no confidence recollections too: hence "I fail to see why this merits a page all of its own". [[User:Sprow\|Sprow]] 10:24, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

			Well, I think we've established that a good group of us do think this is worthy of its own page, and since this Wiki is for the benefit of all members and ex-members, if we want to record our experiences of the time I think it is only reasonable to allow us to do so. To reiterate again, Jonathan will be heavily cutting this article soon, and the extraneous detail will be removed from the page history too. If you wish to add pages for the no confidences which happened during your time in YSTV, you are welcome to, or if you prefer not to (as it sounds) then that's fine. Do as you see fit. We see fit to include this page and record our experiences, so we will. As for it only being of intrerest to those who were directly involved, I don't agree (and the number of subsequent members who have asked the story of these events bears testament to this) however I don't really think it's relevant anyway - much of the detail on this Wiki is not interesting to me, but then much of it is - nothing has to appeal to everyone. If sharing our negative experiences counts as "Dirty Laundry" then I wonder why we share anything at all. A general no-confidences page may be a good idea if someone wishes to write it. [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 12:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Sprow: /* Dirty laundry? */

2007-11-18T10:24:49Z

Dirty laundry?

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:24, 18 November 2007
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	For reference, the 3 no confidences I was referring to were Treasurer, Station Manager, and Director (spread over 4 years - not all on one night!). These were also highly devisive and generally split everyone into two groups (obviously), though I still wouldn't stretch to a whole page on any of them - they're in the minutes and generally only of interest to those directly involved. I'm not favouring anyone's point of view here since these [[Ructions]] mean nothing to me but it does read like dirty laundry being aired. [[User:Sprow\|Sprow]] 10:15, 18 November 2007 (UTC)		For reference, the 3 no confidences I was referring to were Treasurer, Station Manager, and Director (spread over 4 years - not all on one night!). These were also highly devisive and generally split everyone into two groups (obviously), though I still wouldn't stretch to a whole page on any of them - they're in the minutes and generally only of interest to those directly involved. I'm not favouring anyone's point of view here since these [[Ructions]] mean nothing to me but it does read like dirty laundry being aired. [[User:Sprow\|Sprow]] 10:15, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

			On notability I wasn't trying to suggest it wasn't significant. I've certainly dribbled all manner of technical detail into this Wiki, but have tried to place it in a similar context - that was the basis for my suggestion about having a general page about 'no confidence'. This text, in compact form, would be ideal on such a page and other ex-members could add their no confidence recollections too: hence "I fail to see why this merits a page all of its own". [[User:Sprow\|Sprow]] 10:24, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Sprow: /* Dirty laundry? */

2007-11-18T10:15:05Z

Dirty laundry?

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	As it's Friday, I'll stick my nose in.		As it's Friday, I'll stick my nose in.

	I fail to see why this merits a page all of its own and in quite so much detail. At most it would require two or 3 lines to summarise on a page of general 'no confidence' somewhere else, maybe hung off the officer's page. It's nothing unusual I don't think, there were at least 3 no confidence votes in my 4 years (one passed, two rejected) as well as a host of personal disagreements. People leave for URY, people join having left URY, the world keeps turning.[[User:Sprow\|Sprow]] 08:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)		I fail to see why this merits a page all of its own and in quite so much detail. At most it would require two or 3 lines to summarise on a page of general 'no confidence' somewhere else, maybe hung off the officer's page. It's nothing unusual I don't think, there were at least 3 no confidence votes in my 4 years (one passed, two rejected) as well as a host of personal disagreements. People leave for URY, people join having left URY, the world keeps turning. [[User:Sprow\|Sprow]] 08:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

	Sprow - first, as you'll see from the discussion above, we agree about the level of detail being too much, and this will be cut down. As for whether it merits its own page, I think it absolutely does. This was a '''''very''''' big deal - it dominated an entire term of YSTV and almost ripped the place apart. And I don't know about your time at YSTV, but votes of no confidence are absolutely not the norm now. Something has to be seriously wrong for one to be called. Also, surely a vote against an SD is seriously big news compared to any other post. This series of events had a more marked impact on the society than almost anything else I can recall during my time at YSTV, and I think those of us who were there at the time feel it needs recording. Finally, we're not in some Wikipedia-style regime of "it has to be proven to be noteworthy to be written about". I for one would like all members of YSTV over the years to share as much as they like about their experiences of YSTV, without people telling them that those experiences are not important enough. [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 10:00, 16 November 2007 (UTC)		Sprow - first, as you'll see from the discussion above, we agree about the level of detail being too much, and this will be cut down. As for whether it merits its own page, I think it absolutely does. This was a '''''very''''' big deal - it dominated an entire term of YSTV and almost ripped the place apart. And I don't know about your time at YSTV, but votes of no confidence are absolutely not the norm now. Something has to be seriously wrong for one to be called. Also, surely a vote against an SD is seriously big news compared to any other post. This series of events had a more marked impact on the society than almost anything else I can recall during my time at YSTV, and I think those of us who were there at the time feel it needs recording. Finally, we're not in some Wikipedia-style regime of "it has to be proven to be noteworthy to be written about". I for one would like all members of YSTV over the years to share as much as they like about their experiences of YSTV, without people telling them that those experiences are not important enough. [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 10:00, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

	It does need documenting - as Rowan says it was a very big deal indeed, and really soured the atmosphere of the society for a good few weeks if not the whole term (and the lack of an SD hung over the whole summer). There are other elements I think could be included to better reflect this and I will include them when I go through this in a few days...there are also factors to this whole saga which can't really be included and others which already are which probably shouldn't (such as the "rumours" bit)which made it a bigger deal for those at the time. I appreciate the point that no confidences happen all the time but this was really the mother of all no confidences!! The only reason it's being written now is that all the people involved have finally left uni. The main thing I think needs to be altered is the way it perhaps comes across (unintentionally) as a bit personal with all the detail after all these years when we're all (as far as I know) on good terms with the guy in question now. [[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 10:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)		It does need documenting - as Rowan says it was a very big deal indeed, and really soured the atmosphere of the society for a good few weeks if not the whole term (and the lack of an SD hung over the whole summer). There are other elements I think could be included to better reflect this and I will include them when I go through this in a few days...there are also factors to this whole saga which can't really be included and others which already are which probably shouldn't (such as the "rumours" bit)which made it a bigger deal for those at the time. I appreciate the point that no confidences happen all the time but this was really the mother of all no confidences!! The only reason it's being written now is that all the people involved have finally left uni. The main thing I think needs to be altered is the way it perhaps comes across (unintentionally) as a bit personal with all the detail after all these years when we're all (as far as I know) on good terms with the guy in question now. [[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 10:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

			For reference, the 3 no confidences I was referring to were Treasurer, Station Manager, and Director (spread over 4 years - not all on one night!). These were also highly devisive and generally split everyone into two groups (obviously), though I still wouldn't stretch to a whole page on any of them - they're in the minutes and generally only of interest to those directly involved. I'm not favouring anyone's point of view here since these [[Ructions]] mean nothing to me but it does read like dirty laundry being aired. [[User:Sprow\|Sprow]] 10:15, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:15, 18 November 2007
Line 49:		Line 49:
	As it's Friday, I'll stick my nose in.		As it's Friday, I'll stick my nose in.

	I fail to see why this merits a page all of its own and in quite so much detail. At most it would require two or 3 lines to summarise on a page of general 'no confidence' somewhere else, maybe hung off the officer's page. It's nothing unusual I don't think, there were at least 3 no confidence votes in my 4 years (one passed, two rejected) as well as a host of personal disagreements. People leave for URY, people join having left URY, the world keeps turning.[[User:Sprow\|Sprow]] 08:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)		I fail to see why this merits a page all of its own and in quite so much detail. At most it would require two or 3 lines to summarise on a page of general 'no confidence' somewhere else, maybe hung off the officer's page. It's nothing unusual I don't think, there were at least 3 no confidence votes in my 4 years (one passed, two rejected) as well as a host of personal disagreements. People leave for URY, people join having left URY, the world keeps turning. [[User:Sprow\|Sprow]] 08:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

	Sprow - first, as you'll see from the discussion above, we agree about the level of detail being too much, and this will be cut down. As for whether it merits its own page, I think it absolutely does. This was a '''''very''''' big deal - it dominated an entire term of YSTV and almost ripped the place apart. And I don't know about your time at YSTV, but votes of no confidence are absolutely not the norm now. Something has to be seriously wrong for one to be called. Also, surely a vote against an SD is seriously big news compared to any other post. This series of events had a more marked impact on the society than almost anything else I can recall during my time at YSTV, and I think those of us who were there at the time feel it needs recording. Finally, we're not in some Wikipedia-style regime of "it has to be proven to be noteworthy to be written about". I for one would like all members of YSTV over the years to share as much as they like about their experiences of YSTV, without people telling them that those experiences are not important enough. [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 10:00, 16 November 2007 (UTC)		Sprow - first, as you'll see from the discussion above, we agree about the level of detail being too much, and this will be cut down. As for whether it merits its own page, I think it absolutely does. This was a '''''very''''' big deal - it dominated an entire term of YSTV and almost ripped the place apart. And I don't know about your time at YSTV, but votes of no confidence are absolutely not the norm now. Something has to be seriously wrong for one to be called. Also, surely a vote against an SD is seriously big news compared to any other post. This series of events had a more marked impact on the society than almost anything else I can recall during my time at YSTV, and I think those of us who were there at the time feel it needs recording. Finally, we're not in some Wikipedia-style regime of "it has to be proven to be noteworthy to be written about". I for one would like all members of YSTV over the years to share as much as they like about their experiences of YSTV, without people telling them that those experiences are not important enough. [[User:Rowan\|Rowan]] 10:00, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

	It does need documenting - as Rowan says it was a very big deal indeed, and really soured the atmosphere of the society for a good few weeks if not the whole term (and the lack of an SD hung over the whole summer). There are other elements I think could be included to better reflect this and I will include them when I go through this in a few days...there are also factors to this whole saga which can't really be included and others which already are which probably shouldn't (such as the "rumours" bit)which made it a bigger deal for those at the time. I appreciate the point that no confidences happen all the time but this was really the mother of all no confidences!! The only reason it's being written now is that all the people involved have finally left uni. The main thing I think needs to be altered is the way it perhaps comes across (unintentionally) as a bit personal with all the detail after all these years when we're all (as far as I know) on good terms with the guy in question now. [[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 10:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)		It does need documenting - as Rowan says it was a very big deal indeed, and really soured the atmosphere of the society for a good few weeks if not the whole term (and the lack of an SD hung over the whole summer). There are other elements I think could be included to better reflect this and I will include them when I go through this in a few days...there are also factors to this whole saga which can't really be included and others which already are which probably shouldn't (such as the "rumours" bit)which made it a bigger deal for those at the time. I appreciate the point that no confidences happen all the time but this was really the mother of all no confidences!! The only reason it's being written now is that all the people involved have finally left uni. The main thing I think needs to be altered is the way it perhaps comes across (unintentionally) as a bit personal with all the detail after all these years when we're all (as far as I know) on good terms with the guy in question now. [[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 10:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

			For reference, the 3 no confidences I was referring to were Treasurer, Station Manager, and Director (spread over 4 years - not all on one night!). These were also highly devisive and generally split everyone into two groups (obviously), though I still wouldn't stretch to a whole page on any of them - they're in the minutes and generally only of interest to those directly involved. I'm not favouring anyone's point of view here since these [[Ructions]] mean nothing to me but it does read like dirty laundry being aired. [[User:Sprow\|Sprow]] 10:15, 18 November 2007 (UTC)